Kim Thayil On New Book A Screaming Life, Preserving Soundgarden Legacy

RIDGEFIELD, WA – AUGUST 29: Kim Thayil of Soundgarden performs on stage at Sleep Country Amphitheater on August 29, 2014 in Ridgefield, Washington. (Photo by Mat Hayward/Getty Images)

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For co-founding Soundgarden guitarist and Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Kim Thayil, who personally curated the 2014 6 LP box set Echo of Miles: Scattered Tracks Across the Path, properly preserving the band’s history and legacy has long been a priority.

In his new book A Screaming Life: Into the Superunknown With Soundgarden and Beyond (now available in a variety of formats via publisher HarperCollins), Thayil tells not just his own story but Soundgarden’s too, factchecking where necessary as he traces the roots and rise of Seattle’s grunge rock scene and Soundgarden’s place at the very forefront of it.

While Thayil and singer Chris Cornell were both born in Seattle, Thayil actually grew up in the south suburbs of Chicago, where he’d come to embrace the ideals that would guide him as he made the move back to Seattle alongside original Soundgarden bassist Hiro Yamamoto in 1981.

Releasing their debut album Ultramega OK via legendary indie punk label SST Records in 1988, Soundgarden quickly came to embrace the punk world’s do-it-yourself mantra, with Yamamoto managing the bookings and money and drummer Matt Cameron printing posters during his shifts at Kinko’s.

By the time major labels came calling, the band had already created an identity and built an audience, with Thayil in particular acutely aware of the fact that the more attention they paid to the business side, the less control outside forces could exert.

“We had an idea of our audience. We’d built it. And one of the things that I would tell Hiro and Chris and Matt was that the more we do for ourselves, the less that a record label or promoter or whatever could interfere with us,” Thayil explained during a recent video call. “We built our sound and our sonic identity,” he continued. “And that DIY attitude certainly helped us when we started talking to these major labels.”

I spoke with Kim Thayil about the process of constructing A Screaming Life, his approach to the business side and preserving Cornell’s legacy as he works with Cameron, bassist Ben Shepherd, producer Terry Date and engineer Nate Yaccino on the final Soundgarden album. A transcript of our conversation, lightly edited for length and clarity, follows below.

Jim Ryan: As much as it’s your story in the book and Soundgarden’s story, it’s also Seattle’s and the rise of grunge. And you do some factchecking. How important was it to present that story properly and Soundgarden’s place in it?

Kim Thayil: It was very important. Because there’s so many stories out there. Some of it is anecdotal. Some of it’s just apocryphal – things that people want to believe. Some of it is a thing where just, over the years, something was stated in the 80s or early 90s and then it’s reprinted as subsequent journalists borrow from an initial source. I’ve personally experienced frustration when trying to address a misconception or falsehood. And then you think you have. But, within a year or two, someone is referencing that Spin or Rolling Stone or Guitar interview that someone else did and it comes up again. And then I start thinking, “Well, this is sloppy journalism.”

I definitely experienced this in making this book. Because [co-writer] Adem Tepedelen, as a professional journalist, is very diligent about his research. So, we’d go over an anecdote. And he’d look on the internet to see if there’s corresponding things that can associate the timeline or the dates or the individuals or location. And sometimes he’d find discrepancies. Sometimes, it will jog my memory. Or I’ll have to argue with the thing that’s documented on the internet and say, “So, here’s why that’s inaccurate. Because, at that point in time, we did not have this band member playing with us yet. Or this person was no longer with us. So, this story cannot be the case.” Or maybe it’s after someone passed away. Or after a band broke up. So, that conversation was interesting given Adem’s diligent research and my memory.

So, this is an opportunity to try to clear some of those things up.

Ryan: What were you drawing from as you constructed A Screaming Life? Did you journal or was this all from memory?

Thayil: It’s mostly memory. But I would also reference memorabilia. Whether it was magazine articles, photos, conversations. I could easily pick up the phone and speak to Jack Endino or Stuart Hallerman, Hiro and Adam Kasper, Steve Fisk, Mark Arm, Ben or Matt or Susan Silver. And, sometimes, people have different memories. And then maybe something else might be remembered.

So, it’s very interesting. I’ve maintained friendships with a number of journalists from back then. So, that’s an asset. But the memory is constantly jogged in my case for a couple of reasons. One is OCD. You’re kind of prone to revisiting things. If not frequently, repetitively. But also the nature of the partnerships and relationships.

So, for instance, in a situation where somebody is no longer with us or somebody leaves a band or a band breaks up. Well, that individual that has extracted themselves from that social context, that story of their experience kind of ends there. But, for the remaining members, that is now another component of the ongoing story. So, they’ll constantly reference that. An example might be Hiro or [former drummer] Scott Sundquist leave the band. And their narrative in engaging the band is very limited after that. But the band continues with that as a reference point. You remember the context or the series of events that led to us asking this person to leave or that led to this person leaving and the situation that happened.

And, of course, Adem’s research skills. He was here in Seattle writing for The Rocket and a few other magazines so he has resources and old friends there. We have mutual friends. And things can be re-explored. It’s really kind of cool.

Ryan: It was kind of fascinating reading about Soundgarden’s approach to the business side. Early on, you’re employing that DIY punk spirit. Hiro’s managing the money and booking. Matt is printing posters while he’s working at Kinko’s. Early on specifically, how did you guys kind of employ that DIY approach?

Thayil: I mean, our first manager was basically Hiro in terms of most of the business side of things. But there was certainly things that Chris and I took care of because of available resources – who we knew, where we worked, where we went to school and what needed to be done.

Hiro is the one who suggested we hire Susan Silver, our first manager. I had spoken to Jonathan Poneman about that. Having known [Sub Pop Records co-founders] Jonathan and Bruce Pavitt. I had known Bruce since I was in 5th grade. And I knew Jonathan from my college days. We both worked at KCMU, as did Bruce. So, that was a resource that I had. But Hiro suggested Susan. And that worked.

But, before that, a lot of that load was taken on by Hiro in terms of managing the band’s bank account and coordinating touring transportation and stuff like that. We hired Eric Johnson to be our tour manager and he would go between management and the promoters and the band.

Ryan: It was equally interesting as the major labels started to enter the picture. You guys are kind of shopping the labels and asking intelligent questions about how they’re going to help Soundgarden reach a wider audience. And they’re all quickly stunned into silence. You guys were actually invested and cared – and they weren’t used to that. At that point there were just so many artists who wanted nothing to do with the business side in that way. What was it like moving from that DIY era to one where you ultimately did wind up with less control?

Thayil: Exactly. We had an idea of our audience. We’d built it. And one of the things that I would tell Hiro and Chris and Matt was that the more we do for ourselves, the less that a record label or promoter or whatever could interfere with us. We built our sound and our sonic identity. And if we build our audience, and a relationship with that audience, nobody is going to wisely advise that we upend that base. Nobody is gonna do that. So, we could have record labels f–k with us less by doing more for ourselves. And that DIY attitude certainly helped us when we started talking to these major labels.

And by the way, we never solicited these major labels – with the exception of Elektra. They kind of came to us. And we thought, “Well, this is an opportunity…” The fact that they were soliciting us kind of made us feel like our stock was more valuable than simply diluting ourselves with our own self-worth.

But, yeah, those meetings were strange. I wanted them to tell us what we could do for them. What is it that you want to get out of the relationship with Soundgarden? How do you think Soundgarden is going to benefit you as an A&R guy or you as a label executive? What could it bring to your record label? I wanted them to tell me what our value is to them. Rather than them telling me how we could get money and a tour bus.

We had tour managers and some people at record labels who thought that’s all you needed to do. You just talk to a rock band and tell them, “You’ll get girls! You’ll get a bus! And when your first gold record comes in…” It’s like, come on, man! Who are you talking to? But I realized that that sh-t worked! That’s how record labels and promoters and tour managers and stuff, that’s how they talked to bands! Because that’s all they wanted us to know. They’re sitting there telling us, “We could do this for you. We could do that. And you could have this! And you could get that!” And it’s like, what is our value to you? What is it you are you going to get from us? What is it you believe? Tell us how we’re valuable.

Ryan: Obviously, you touch on it in the book. And I’ve seen some updates since. But I know you guys are working with Terry Date on the final album. How surreal has that process been and how important is it to honor Chris’s legacy with that music?

Thayil: I don’t know if it’s surreal. It’s unusual. It’s very atypical. Because we’re going through this process three quarters full. We’re missing Chris. And it could be argued that it’s less than three quarters full if you want to make the argument that Chris’s singing and playing of guitar. Fortunately, we have his recorded input. Which is his vocals. And that’s great. That’s the best item that we have to work with. That’s probably the most valuable thing for the project and our ability to complete it.

It’s atypical in that it doesn’t move the same way chronologically. You’re not budgeting some time and money and starting at a beginning point where you load in all of the gear and set up everything and mic stuff and start dialing in sounds and doing the basics. Then you get the drums and you start working on the bass and rhythm guitars. You do vocals and finish up with harmonies and guitar solos. So, it’s kind of sideways. And sometimes you move backwards. Some things are completed and some things aren’t. Some things need to be redone. And so you’re constantly revisiting things and then sitting back and thinking, “Is that working?”

Fortunately, we have a very good producer in Terry Date and engineer in Nate Yaccino. Both of whom have great ears. And Nate is a musician. He’s a bit of a polymath. As a musician, he plays a number of different things. And he’s worked everything from the crew end of things to being in bands to singing to writing to producing to recording. He’s just an MVP for all of this stuff.

So, having their input and their insight is really helpful on top of the skills that Matt, Ben and I have developed over the years in being able to identify what is Soundgarden. And what are the individual components? How does what I’m doing sound like me and how does it contribute to the collective project?